Posted by Ezekiel 25:17 on May 04, 2001 at 07:21:13:
In Reply to: Re: How the hell...? posted by Matt on May 03, 2001 at 12:19:01:
This is not a flame. And trust me it could be much worse. I'm not sure why, but fundamental Christianity seems to irritate me the most.
: I believe the people in Hell are not in a lake of fire yet. They will be cast in after the world ends. Right now, those who died, without accepting the redemption of Christ await a "trial" of sorts. There they will be shown when they could have changed their fate, and will accept. Although, it may be possible to escape such a fate in the "trial."
Yup, all the billions of people who have died throughout history are sitting patiently waiting for the end of the world to come. Indeed, they are awaiting only a 'trial' of sorts as you mentioned, which is possibly exceeded in fairness only by Iraqi military courts.
If I have your explanation correct, you just stated that those who are at the trial, are shown all their errors, say "Oops, I shoulda done that" and accept it, and then are thrown to the lions. That's not a trial, there are no witnesses, no chance of being not guilty, that is a straight forward execution.
How can it be possible to escape that fate at trial anyway? Are we saying God is wrong to have put us there in the first place? What about the thousands of years those people would have had in trial when they should have been in heaven, I bet they're pleased. Of course not, there is no second chance, game over. If you've never even ever heard of Jesus, bad luck to you, you're born damned.
: Hell was not a place intended for humans. Hell was a place to hold the evils that existed before the creation of the earth.
: In the Garden of Eden, Adam was tricked by Satan into letting these evils into the world.
: A personal battle over everyone's soul has been fought between Angels and Demons ever since.
I'm not even going to get myself involved in arguing a work of fiction, and this supposed eternal battle between angels and demons which is happening in the world right now. If that's how you get your kicks, I suggest you sit down and watch the Exorcist repeatedly.
: When Jesus came to earth, He never gave into any of the temptations of Satan, yet when He died, all the sin that had been committed or would be committed was cast unto Jesus. He then went into the deepest, worst place in Hell where he was given in 3 days, what any one person would receive in eternity. This isn't conceivable to the human mind, but it's what happened. Then through the power of God that made up Jesus, Jesus took back control of the earth and took it to Heaven.
: He sent the Holy Spirit, which gave the power of God that jesus had to the Earth.
: Man may now live as Jesus lived, with knowing that whatever sin he has committed has already been paid for.
I agree. Man may now live as Jesus lived, knowing that any sin he commits is forgiven as long as he believes in Jesus. Otherwise, even if he lives a pure and virtuous life as free as sin as possible and doesn't believe, he's still screwed. So go on, all you rapists and career criminals, kill anyone you like, do whatever you like, in the knowledge that if you repent and believe in Jesus, everything is all right. Please.
Getting right back to the point, I hope all you rabid fundamental Christians realise that 3/10 of the world's population roughly is Christian. Which pretty much damns 7/10 of us. Outta those 3/10, 1/2 don't even believe in angels and demons, so they're also screwed. So live comfy as the 1/10 that might possibly be saved. That's a great eternal plan by God wouldn't you say?
Those 'trial' rooms must be pretty damn full by now.
I suspect all those poor people over in Africa and China are also rather miffed, that although they've never even heard of Jesus, they are screwed anyway. Christians say no-one can understand God's eternal plan....no bloody wonder.
: God cannot allow sin to enter his presence for he is without sin, and sin is only where he is not. So those who die, and are sinb are not allowed in his presence, that is why they must go to Hell.
That argument, again non-sensical is stating that if God ever allows sin to enter his presence, he immediately becomes defiled. God is perfect, God is all-knowing, I'm sure he understands what sin is. That is the most pathetic argument I've ever heard for why people supposedly go to hell. Who cares about justice and fairness and even common-sense?
: But if a man accepts that he4's sinned and believes that Jesus has already paid for it, then the sin is taken away and he may be in God's presence, escaping eternity in Hell.
Wow, gosh, how easy is that. I'm just going to do what all sensible people would do on hearing that, and make sure I do anything I like, as long as I repent on my deathbed. I might buy a few indulgences whilst I'm at it.
: I believe that God knows who will be with him and who won't in the end. But God gave us the free will to choose for ourselves. He does not choose that we be in Hell, rather we choose for ourselves.
I believe that if God knows who will be with him and who won't be in the end, then that eliminates free-will. If he knows when I'm born that I will not be with him, how can I possibly prove he is wrong? I agree that we choose for ourselves whether we go to hell. We choose when we're born African or Asian or any country in the 3rd world or the Middle East, then we choose to go to hell. Not to mention all those who were born before Jesus even existed to save us all.
Just so reading my replies haven't been a total waste of your time. I'll refer you to a site, that you should look at:
Which basically explains why we're all screwed unless we turn to Jesus now. Start a crusade.
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