Posted by Ezekiel 25:17 on November 14, 2001 at 07:58:15:
In Reply to: Can you prove god? posted by Whiskey on November 12, 2001 at 00:56:24:
: Heres my question - and its a simple one (or should be). Can someone show me proof of god that DOESN'T assume god exists in its proof?
The reason behind the belief in God is centred around 'faith'. 'Faith' is believing without any tangible proof. This gets back to a central point in my contention. If there is actual proof God exists, this would prove that there is no God as such proof would deny free-will. Given that the choices are 'believe in God' and go to heaven, or 'disbelieve in God' and go to hell, is that even a rational choice once it has been proven beyond doubt that God exists? Thus, if God created this universe and man with the concept of free-will, than proof is impossible. I digress and state, that it seems a tad unfair to punish humans for exercising their free-will in disbelieving in God.
These points are made in the assumption that God is non-interventionalist, and takes no credence whatsoever in those who have personally been touched by God. (requires more discussion of free-will which will be discussed in the fullness of time)
However, bearing all this in mind, I will attempt to do the impossible and prove categorically there is a God by sheer logic alone.
If we assume A = 9, then the equation is correct. Thus, believing A to be 9 renders the whole equation correct. However, isn't it more likely to conclude that if A does not equal 9, it is the entire equation which is placed in doubt?
Just one small element renders the large equation worthless if incorrect. Now apply this biblically.
So how can we prove that God really exists without assuming God actually exists?
Well, obviously we'll need to make some more assumptions.
Lets start with:
a) a cheese sandwich is better than nothing
b) nothing is better than ultimate fulfilment
c) thus: a cheese sandwich is better than ultimate fulfilment.
Now that we've established a cheese sandwich is better than ultimate fulfilment, we must ponder how a cheese sandwich was created.
Can man create a cheese sandwich by himself?
No, he requires dairy products and grain.
Can the process of evolution result in naturally occuring bread and cheese slices?
a) We know that God acts as a pathway to 'ultimate fulfilment'.
b) By process of elimination, if its not the act of nature that has created this work of art known as a 'cheese sandwich', then surely it comes from another source.
c) Thus, we can assume that cheese sandwiches exist as a creation designed to prove the ultimate existence of God.
: Soo many examples and so forth take the stand: It cant possibly be "evolution" (for example) THEREFORE God exists. Thats crazy talk. I am a very rational person, and as far as i can see God is a fanciful dream that would be wonderful if it was true, but the only evidence i see is "It must be true".
Never underestimate the power of denial :)
If you don't believe me, I'll tell you I heard that line in a movie, thus 'It must be true'.
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