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Can you prove god? (Proof enclosed) (Counter too)

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Posted by James 5:16 on December 01, 2001 at 12:54:54:

In Reply to: Re: Can you prove god? (Proof enclosed) (Counter too) posted by Ezekiel 25:17 on November 22, 2001 at 08:58:03:

: : Now, let's get a closer argument for God's existence.

: : Let's assume that there is no God.

: : Then the universe was created randomly as there was no designer to create it. As a result of this creation we, as humans, came about as a result of random chance. (I can't begin to tell you what kind of odds that would take, but let's continue.)

: : We call into assumption, Newton's Laws of Physics. (Therefore, Newton's Laws are true without need of proof.)

: : Newton's Third Law of Thermodynamics says that all systems go from a state of order to a state of chaos (by use of heat).

: : If that is true, then the original universe must therefore be orderly, and proceed towards a chaotic state.

: : The next question is therefore, how did order come to a seemingly random universe? That does not logically follow. Random systems are disorderly by nature. So, we have to make the assumtion that the universe was orderly.

: : How did the system become orderly? There must be a force to impose order on the seeming randomness. The existence of this force counters the fundamental assumption that we made at the beginning of the proof.

: : The must be an organizing force. Call it God, Allah, Jehovah, Thor, or whatever. The imposition of order on the universe requires an organizer.

: : There is my proof. I can't proof of the Christian God but you can see the above argument.

: Not being a scientist, I'm struggling to comprehend this theory. Are we assuming we live in an ordered universe? Why is it ordered as opposed to in chaos? Can Newton's laws apply universally or are they only applicable on this planet?

Actually, we are working under the assumption that we have come from an ordered universe to one of chaos. Over time we move to more and more chaos. (That's on an atomic level and smaller...) The organization of the universe tends not to favor order unless order is imposed upon it, no matter what level we attempt to view it.

Now, from this concept, the universe is proceeding to fall apart. Every nanosecond that we are here. That's the nature of things. If you need an example, try to find something that does not work in this way. Something that becomes more orderly with time. Even our own bodies don't work that way.

Newtonian physics applies, by the way, to the entire universe. At least to the entire known universe so far.

Always intriguing,
Ezekiel 25:17

Well, thanks for listening,

James 5:16

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