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Context: Finishing up.

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Posted by Ezekiel 25:17 on April 10, 2001 at 02:10:39:

In Reply to: Finishing up. posted by James 5:16 on April 07, 2001 at 21:24:00:

Well okay, by now I'm sure I've totally confused a lot of you. Who woulda guessed I would use up 8000 characters so quickly in my last post. But to reiterate, "Please!" - is a response to James 5:16, who replied to "Re:Hola!". It comes in 2 parts, and unfortunately due to my poor posting, its seen on 2 different threads in this section :)
Also, you can tell which parts are previous quotes because the paragraph always begins with a ':'. The parts I respond to have no :, and should be clear enough anyway to those who know my style of writing.
For those of you who are still confused, I beg your indulgence and forgive me :)

: O.K. Onto the issue of fate vs. free will.

: In a very real sense, Christians know that we have both.

Oh goody, my favourite topic :) But again, I'll leave my main points for another time.

: God is a triunal being that exists beyond the ten appreciable dimensions that we, as lowly humans, can measure. One of those dimesions is time. (Along with length, width, height, mass, and others...) God exists beyond time. If we were to say that, God goes through time in the same way we do (day to day, minute to minute, second to second, for exxample), then we would be limiting God appreciably. He would be forced to follow time along and not be able to control this one dimension. If God is omnipotent, then this is false. Therefore, time is something that God has complete control over and is immune from its effects.

That's a very interesting argument. I guess we have moved on from the "Does God exist?" argument to the "In what ways does God exist?" :)

I didn't think God could be quantified quite so easily, but for argument's sake, let me take your example to be true.
I can't say I'm a physicist, but i wasn't aware there were 10 such dimensions. I always thought there were only four. I digress, but could you name all ten for me, just to clarify, and also state how many dimensions there actually are.
Okay, I think I'm clear on what you say. To sum it up - God can zoom backwards and forwards through time right?

: Next, if then we were to say that fate (namely the absence of choice) were true then our lives are meaningless. That is another aspect of our lives as humans that He would control. So, in that case, we have a serious problem, how could we have fallen from grace due to Original Sin? Why was there a need for a savior? Just so God could get His kicks? May it never be! Only an evil and unjust God would have wanted us to fall from perfection in Eden. An evil and unjust God would never have sent a savior to take away the sins from the world. Only an evil God would do all of this just for kicks or humor.

Is humour evil? Are you saying that God has no sense of humour? I digress also, but why can't God be evil? What is evil? If I murder someone, that is considered evil. If an earthquake or tornado destroys a town of thousands is that considered evil? Perhaps we should consider the town evil, if God decided to destroy it. Instead of creating a Devil to assume the evilness of existence, perhaps you should consider that God is in himself ambivalent (capable of great good and evil). What possible lesson can we learn from a catastrophe of this nature?

:To restate that second rebuttal, God would never have given us a second chance through the sacrifice of His only Son had He been evil Himself. No, this evil nature is out of character for God. A God who performed such evil could never be the God who sent that sacrifice for the Cross. God must therefore be omnibenevolent too. The Bible teaches that.

I think i rebutted this presumption of Jesus Christ quite clearly in my previous post "Please!" Part 1+2. :)

: So, therefore, we have a being outside of time that is aware of all things past and all things present and all things to come making Him omnitemporal. Also we have an omnibenevolent God as we just proved. Therefore, we can have both fate and free will in our dimensions.

: James 5:16

Barring capitals, all you have stated here is totally inconclusive statements about the nature of God. You provide no clear example to prove your statements, simply pointing to the bible and stating your case, will never be enough in any educated forum :)

You do bring to light, quite a few interesting points though, and I would really like to know how you describe God's personality :)

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