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Re: Oops. Sorry about the capitals.

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Posted by Ezekiel 25:17 on April 10, 2001 at 03:02:24:

: 1)I don't mind sarcasm and cynicism. Many times that's when we are able to best analyze our own beliefs. It's certainly the way that I did.

Sarcasm and cynicism provide perspective and humour, but are never a replacement for cold logic :)

: Now onto the the issues at hand:

: Oh, yes. There is most certainly a burden to being God. The burden He placed upon Himself. (By the way, the sex being referenced is the one used in the Christian Bible.) God also does not feel like any burden is beyond Him b/c he is omnipotent. But He made responsibilities for Himself. What any one of us would do in His situation is something that we really can't contempplate easily since we can never be in that position.

Perhaps I don't understand what you say. Can you actually name a burden or responsibility that God actually has? I digress a bit more and I ask, why we have to use capital letters when we differentiate 'God' and 'He'. Just because he's a supreme being, I'm sure he'd understand if we just prefaced god with small letters :) I'll get back to the point later when I discuss conformity.

To respect God is good. But why should we respect him? What has he actually physically done for any of us, bar creating the world?

: It's a hair arrogant to a) be so demanding of an infinately powerful being and b) mock the intelligence of such a being. However, because you don't believe in Him, all you can do is mock Him. A mistake made in the Bible many times, and I ask that you not mock Him. A PET PEEVE OF MINE, if you get my drift.

Well, I figured God to be beyond the normal limitations of time and space, so I thought perhaps he wouldn't mind spending some more time chatting to us abuot crucial global and ethical issues. I'd really like to hear his take on euthanasia, abortion, drugs, gay rights and the like to see where we're going wrong. And no, please don't refer me to the bible, as there is no clear explanation for any of these, no matter how you twist the words. And besides, I don't demand anything of God, I understand he is a busy deity, but I'd appreciate any time he has to sit down and chat.

I don't mock the intelligence of God do I? I didn't say God was stupid. I did throw up the possibility that God could have been wrong. Why should God be infallible? Sure he can create things, but does that mean they have to work perfectly? The idea of a perfect deity is not a new one, and is a human failing to always seek the perfect being, and raise others upon a pedestal. Assuming I do mock God, I would hope that a perfect deity has a sense of humour.

: Actually, you are wrong on all counts. He did die, on the Cross. He was born, in a stable. He had peers. He was human save that He was sinless and had the ability to perform miracles. He also had a responsibility, to save us all from eternal damnation. However, since that was a gift, I guess you have me on that. God does make commitments however.

As God, he has the last say on who he ends up sending to eternal damnation. If he has a responsibility to save us all from eternal damnation, I don't think anyone can deny he's doing a pretty poor job. In fact, since I'd say 3/4 of the world are non-christian, and the ruling majority is muslim, hindu or buddhism, God better watch out. Again, I hope I have refuted the Jesus debate in my "Please!" Parts 1 + 2.

:Do we deserve any of these relations/ No. It was a gift, but because He was human and God, Jesus can relate to us. He was tempted in all possible ways for forty days. He did not succumb.

Why did he not succumb? Because he was God. God is perfect, even in human form, and God is sinless, so he could not possibly succumb. We on the other hand are not, surely after having been a human himself, God can understand that, and forgive us our minor failings without damning the majority of us to hell for not believing in him.

: God is not required to do anything. In fact, there are places in the Bible where God states that He despises certain individuals or races of people. We may not understand it, but that is what is documented.

That's because the Bible was written in a period of humanity where racism and bigotry were rife. Not to mention sexism. But we'll ignore that and assume the bible is perfect shall we?

: The Holy Spirit was left with us. It is an infinate part of the threesome that makes up God.

Okay, then book me in to see the Holy Spirit at his earliest convenience :)

: a) Adam's original sin.

Let's blame the whole of humanity time and time again, coz some guy wants to eat an apple.

: b) Man's. We are made in His image, but we are not perfect. As a picture from a camera may look like us, but is not us.

Take something perfect and split it up and all the parts are perfect. Isn't it more likely to assume since we live in an imperfect world, the creator is imperfect? Why would a perfect being, after experiencing perfection, settle for anything less? In fact Iíd probably prefer an imperfect God. Hey, Iím a nice guy, Iíll forgive him if he stuffs up a few things. Too many cats and not enough birds? No problem. Try again, we appreciate it anyway, keep up the good work.

: c) Because we are no longer perfect, we no longer qualify to live directly with Him. So...

So what you're saying is God turfed us out because we're not perfect and disobeyed him. The only way we can get back in his good books is to suck up to him and praise him. I guess what they say is right, 'Christianity doesn't celebrate its faith, it mourns it.'

: d) We must be perfect. Non-sinners for a start. In the End, God will make perfect those who have faith in Him. The attributes of the people He desires are listed in the Bible in a large number of places.

Its impossible for humanity to be perfect. I thought that was already established :) We are human, we all sin, but we can all beg forgiveness in the end anyway. So what matter that we sin now, if we truly repent later. Sin all you like, but make sure you regret it.

Furthermore, how can we know true goodness if we haven't experienced evil ourself. Is it more noble to try temptation, realise it is evil and then follow the path of goodness, or is it better to blindly assume something is evil and never partake of it. What is sin anyway? All our laws can't be contained in thousands of pages of legislation yet the bible can sum it all up in 10 commandments?

:May it never be! We are taught to love those that would even hate and hurt us. (At least I was.) Some faiths do revolve around conversion and that is called the Great Commision, but conversion is not where the story ends. Each Christian should work toward perfection but also realize that we alone will not achieve it. We need Christ to finish the job. By the way, the conversion of another is not a requirement to be saved. I don't know who sold you that bill of goods but they were very, very wrong.

I'm not stating that you need to convert others to be saved. I'm stating your fundamental doctrine, that you will go to heaven for your goodness. However, you have plenty of loved ones who may not follow your beliefs thus they will go straight to hell. Thus, you will undoubtedly hope they join you in heaven, requiring you inherently to try and convert them.

: As I stated, faith is the issue. Without it, all of the capitals in the world would make God exist for anyone. By the way, how do I get into this smiting bit? Sounds like fun! Personally I never smote anyone and I was curious what it would be like. :-)

Now, now, remember smiting is wrong and evil. Unless of course you smite non-believers in the furtherance of your case :) Ah the good ol' days of Christianity. How we miss thee.


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