Posted by James 5:16 on April 14, 2001 at 12:31:51:
In Reply to: Some quick responses... posted by James 5:16 on April 14, 2001 at 12:30:29:
: Secondly, Jesus knew he was doomed to die, yet nobly and resolutely he determined it was for the good of mankind and was crucified. This meant that humans back in the past were going to crucify him no matter what. There was no option for them to release him, as this was all part of God's eternal plan to save humanity. This again denies free-will.
Oh, no. Peter for example, one of Christ's closest friends, denied even knowing Him three times. Peter had the free-will. He could have stood up and stood with Jesus, but he didn't. Predicted, but allowing for free-will.
: Thirdly, Jesus performed many miracles and gathered converts because of this. However, he did not visit many people around the world. Furthermore, we being born in this day and age, do not get to see these miracles. Thus, humans back in the middle ages gain special advantages that we do not. Would a truly just God show favouritism?
Actually, in one of the Gospels, Jesus says,"Blessed is he who believe without seeing." Our blessing is rewarded by Him because we beleive without having to be a witness.
: Assuming free-will, in addition, if Jesus was really a miracle worker of that nature, would the majority of people want him denounced and killed? Why believe the bible is the ultimate truth? It is a book designed to gain converts, it has no more veracity than a pamphlet to gain supporters for a particular political party.
Some Christian churches do not believe in the perfection of the Bible. Does Jesus ever adress this? No. But these books that we call the Bible are what, over two millenia, we have decided to call divinely inspired. Some disagree.
: Lastly, I'm not God. But surely, there are more convincing and more reasonable displays to forgive humanity than requiring the sacrifice of your own son. He is the law, the ultimate judge and he can still choose to forgive us without that sacrifice being necessary. Assuming we have free will, we just killed God's son, I'm sure he wouldn't be a very forgiving mood. The alternative is we have no free will.
I think I explained this earlier.
: Furthermore, if God wanted us to have free will, why would he send down Jesus? Sending him down is proof of the existence of God, and that alone denies free will.
We can have free will with or without Christ. God may know what is going to happen, but that does not mean that He actively controls what's going on. He can do so. But He chooses not to.
: The key to this argument is free will. I'm presuming we all have free will, for if not, God being the infinite being that he is can come down at any time to show that he exists and make this world a better place.
Quite frankly, God's whole premise is that this world stinks. After the fall, the world became infested with sin. In the end, at the time described in Revelation, the world will be destroyed and re-created so that sin may not exist. His call is that we should be better people in spite of the fact that we live in a fallen, sinful, imperfect world. We have a guide book (the Bible), an example to follow (Jesus) and a perfect God to have faith in.
Thanks for reading,
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