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Re: Death and Religion (short-in the context of this entire forum) pt 2

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Posted by Ezekiel 25:17 on September 02, 2001 at 23:46:12:

In Reply to: Re: Death and Religion (very very very long) pt 2 posted by Exodus 22:19 on September 02, 2001 at 07:23:44:

: : Justice doesn't exist my friend :)
: Maybe not true justice, but it ain't a perfect world mon ami...
: : Is the law justice?
: No, but enough people have enough of the same moral code to make it socially unacceptable for a person to do certain things and the law is an extension of that.

Justice is a blanket phrase used by heroes and tyrants alike. When one's own personal opinions are met, than justice is achieved. Nothing exists which can justify these opinions. The legal system is designed to cover the majority of cases at the cost of individual justice, at times it is more concerned with procedure rather than substantial equity. It was designed by a Government who is at the whim of power minority groups.

: : Should the moral code of the majority override the individual liberties of the minority?
: To some extent, yes.

Is that the same as maybe?
The problem is moral code is not universal but varies between countries. An example of this is nudity. How can we ever have an absolute consensus of any issue with the death and birth of millions every day, and how can these codes stand up in the future.

The UN is another example of the closest thing we have to universal human rights. However, regardless of population, the controlling nations in the UN are the one's with the most money and power, and does that necessarily make their decisions just?

: : What makes the majority anymore right than the minority?
: : If everyone in the world believed that the world was flat, than would that be correct?
: No, that would be ignorance. But if everyone in the world believed it were wrong to spitroast porcupines, then that would be a moral belief and the moral belief of the majority rules as it must in any non-dictatorial society (for obvious reasons ie. more of us than you)
: It doesn't mean that it would be impossible to spitroast a porcupine, it just wouldn't be approved of.

If it is against the moral belief of the majority, should it be outlawed?
On many cases, majority = conformity = lack of freedom of thought. Although, on the flip side, there are a lot of weird individuals out there with extremist views.
How can recreational drugs, abortion and so forth ever reach a consensus, and what is the correct stance?

: Again I will answer as best I can... a person's moral belief system comes from what the person believes is right within themself. I cannot answer it more precisely any more than I could say what the purpose of the third brain cell from the left of this guy's cranium is for.

What a person believes is influenced by a multitude of factors. Professors write whole textbooks on it, but I'll attempt to sum it up in a single word. Upbringing. The environment in which you live your early life (ages 0-15) has an extreme influence in what your values and beliefs will be in the future as that is when conformity is first drilled into the soul. This period is where questions are asked, and answers given, with no concept that these answers could possibly be wrong.

: : Personally, I believe true happiness comes from denial and ignorance. (Lots of happy people out there) Truly understanding yourself is one of striving and hardship. Truly understanding the universe is an impossibility. The search for meaning is not easy and should be differentiated from the pursuit of happiness :)
: That is possibly the most cynical thing I have ever heard... congratulations. You cannot know yourself truly, only make progress towards it. The search for meaning is not easy, but results in happiness. If you know what you want, only then will you know how to get it.

You fit into the class of people who claim the search of knowledge is one of the factors of ultimate fulfilment. It is easy to know what you want and want to achieve, it is far harder to actually achieve it. I claim that knowledge doesn't necessarily bring happiness and should be sought for its own reward. If we go back to your earlier example vis a vis death, would it make you happier to know when you were going to die? Probably not, but it would be useful nevertheless.
If you knew what you were really eating when biting into a Mcdonalds burger, would it make you any happier?
Denial is a more certain process to reach happiness. Knowledge is a more certain process to reach knowledge.

: : Birthdays are also over-rated. :)
: Only after about 30 :)
Any excuse for a party?:)

: I don't know and possibly.... I was actually thinking more along the line of a kind of hip hop anthem for the ol' guy. I think it's time for a more musically inclusive Jesus.

I personally find hymns very spiritual and uplifting, yet at times I yearn for a more hip hop and r&b Jesus. If you feel able to devote some time to achieving this blend, I would appreciate it. On a totally unrelated note, my own personal survey on humanity shows a distinct tendency towards religion by followers of r&b.
Maybe music and religion will be my next post :P
Perhaps not.

: : My 2 cents.
: If there is a fine line between pleasure and pain, then it was my pleasure.

Snappy quotes are overrated, then again so are ratings. :)

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