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Re: Sojourn --Some corrections

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Posted by James 5:16 on October 10, 2001 at 13:52:20:

In Reply to: Sojourn posted by Ezekiel 25:17 on October 10, 2001 at 03:43:59:

: "And what, exactly, constitutes a "true" Christian?

A true Christian is a person that believes that there exists one God in three persons :Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Believing that all men are fallen, we require a sacrifice to compensate for that imperfection. Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, was born into human form, perfect man and God. His sacrifice on the cross was a payment for humanity's sinfulness. It gave us the ability to join God on the final day.

: Your own personal opinion that you are right?

No. The faith that we have in Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit.

: Or does your *particular* preacher spout the same limited bullshit rhetoric that I have heard in every church--that they are correct and everyone else is wrong?

Actually, this Christian has always stood under the flag of understanding. I don't have a perfect understanding of the world and will never have it. So too should pastors be making the same comment. What we as Christians believe is a manner of the best of our understanding. Each church has its own understandings and interpretations of the Bible and each pastor tries his (or her) best to try to make clear the truth of the word of God. Not everyone is going to agree on what that truth is, but they will try.

: Zoroastrianism became Judaism, Judaism became Christianity and Islam. The final two became splintered into a conglomeration of sects, and became the impetus for the perversion of responsibility and free will.

O.K. Let's try this again.

Judaism (around 6500 B.C. or so or arguably the Garden of Eden) came first. Then the first (illegitimate) child of Abraham, Ishmael, founded what was to become Islam and all of the nations following Islam. Christianity occurred in the 1st century A.D. Islam came into true strength in the beginning of the 7th century A.D. under the leadership of Mohammed. Zoroastrianism was a tiny sect in southern Europe during the late 7th century A.D. That is the correct history of the religions listed, making the preposted listing completely incorrect and the conclusions incorrect as well.

: All holy books dealing with "Yaweh" and "Yeshua" (God and Jesus) have a very explicit philosophy in regards to tolerance and violence: kill those who defy "our" law.

Where, Biblically, is that listed?

: In Genesis, we are given the Commandments--the first of which is "Thou shalt not kill." Later on, in the same book, God tells the Israelites to "go into Canaan and KILL everyone there."

First, the Ten Commandments are listed in Exodus 20, not in Genesis. Second, the first Commandment is "You shall have no other gods before me". Third, "Thou shalt not kill" is the sixth Commandment. Fourth, while God does tell the nation of Israel to kill all of those in Canaan (which they do not do compltely for different reasons), the command is in the book of Joshua under a completely different author.

: Justify your beliefs all you want--they are full of holes and inconsistency. Religion is not about a relationship with the divine--it is about the politics and flawed rhetoric of man."

In this, there is a small degree of justification. Many times religion has been about politics, namely the Catholic church and their rule over Europe for 1200 or so years. Islam is a similar state in many nations. Also, religion is ALWAYS about the flaws of humanity. Whether or not it is the cause or an attempt to deal with the problem, religion always deals with the flawed state of man.

Well, thanks for reading,

James 5:16

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